Seeking genealogy help

Gezamenlijke hulp zoeken

Hallo,

Ik woon in de VS en onderzoek de 17e-eeuwse Nederlandse voorouders van mijn vrouw in Bergen op Zoom. WestBrabantsArchief.nl heeft veel interessante en relevante documenten. Ik zoek hulp en ben bereid om dit te compenseren. Ik ben ook bereid om te leren hoewel ik tot nu toe nog veel te leren heb met slechts 6 weken Nederlandse lessen! :-) [Ik gebruik Google translate voor dit bericht]

Oprecht,
-Jeff Gerber
Kirkland, Washington, VS.

Hi Jeff,
Send your email adress to [gerberjeff AT null.net] and I will try to help you.
This email address will only be valid for this specific purpose and will be deleted afterwards.
Kind regards

Hello Jeff,

If there's a document you'd like to know the contents of, you can post a screenshot on the forum so people can transcribe it and tell you about the contents.

You might also like to post your request on http://www.bhic.nl/onderzoeken/forum , the forum of the Brabants Historisch Informatie Centrum, it has lots of genealogy enthusiasts helping eachother find ancestors.

Best wishes and Merry Christmas (Vrolijk Kerstfeest)!

Marjolijn,

Dank je wel en Vrolijk Kerstfeest ook!

Ik heb twee pagina's met een testament. Dit is de eerste pagina.

This is my best attempt:

1. Heden den 20e September 1693 Compareerde etc.
2. Edriaen Duij?laer Coopman van Brandewijnen Indepoorter
3. deher Stadt als in H?inselijt Zebbende Jacomina
4. Heckmans dis te woorens Wede was var Baltez Keurvorst
5. Inde maer van den kindt mit naeme Johannes Keurvorst
6. heeft Gehouden ter eenre Inde Reijnier Keurvorst
7. mr Grootmaker ? Johan Kimningam mr Chirurgijn -
8. Inde geijde mede foortors alsner Ooms van t’ voorst
9. Kindt inde gijde Rd: ?d : Acht? : Heeren vande Magistraet
10. Deher Stadt aengesteet lijnde, als voogt inde
11. rostdetive over t’ he? Kindt ter andere ?ijde, ? hemen
12. Geveude dat tussehen Haerluijden albereijts deist?nten
13. Inde oneeningheden waeren geresen, over inde ter savete
14. Dat offe het voort kindt met de justitutic bijden
15. Testamente vande voorst Balten Keurvorst inde den
16. Dersten Comp Huijs? of gerdeht voorden Rotarie -
17. Charles van der Mast inde hoechere getuijgen goden
18. 14e October 1692 bumen deser Stadt van hijne gerdehte
19. vaderlijche goederen inde legitime ?artic wel mochte
20. vosdaen lijn, Inde omme alle desele tefre vuteren
21. Inde wegte?, Verelaren de Comparanten
22. Gesamentlijct met malcanderen overcomen Inde ver
23. accordeert te hijn ? agreatue vande voorst hoeren
24. vande Wagistract, Dat den Dersten Comparant
25. uijt den Hoofte van hijne Huijsvroe ?en het selve kindt
26. Fa? geven inde notkeeren in flaetse van de somme van
27. vijff Dutvintig gels inden gemelte ter camente
28. geraert, de somme van den Hondert vijff inde
29. seventig guls, Glijvende den verderen contenue
30. van den ter camente voorst in hijn geheet, inde hal
31. de voorst een hondert vijff ?n t seventig guls, gehalvens
32. d’ alimentatie inde uijt hettinge t’ voorst kindt out
33. ?ijnde vijff en twintig jaeren ? ? dat tot
34. Buwelijch offe anderen geapprogeerden fact sal
35. hijn comen, strechen tot voldaeninge van hijn vader ?
36. Lijcke goederen inde legitime foortie, G?elooven

1. Heden den 20e September 1693 Compareerde etc.
Heden den 28e september 1693 compareerde etc.
2. Edriaen Duij?laer Coopman van Brandewijnen Indepoorter
Adriaen Duijvelaer, coopman (erroneously written as coompan!) van brandewijnen ende poorter
3. deher Stadt als in H?inselijt Zebbende Jacomina
deser stadt, als in huwelijck hebbende Jacomina
4. Heckmans dis te woorens Wede was var Baltez Keurvorst
Heckmans die tevoorens weduwe was van Balten Keurvorst
5. Inde maer van den kindt mit naeme Johannes Keurvorst
ende waervan een kindt met naeme Johannes Keurvorst
6. heeft Gehouden ter eenre Inde Reijnier Keurvorst
heeft behouden ter eenre, ende Reijnier Keurvorst,
7. mr Grootmaker ? Johan Kimningam mr Chirurgijn -
meesterbrootmaker, ende Johan Kunningam, meesterchirurgijn,
8. Inde geijde mede foortors alsner Ooms van t’ voorst
ende beijde mede poorters alhier, ooms van ’t voorscreven
9. Kindt inde gijde Rd: ?d : Acht? : Heeren vande Magistraet
kindt ende bij de edelachtbare heeren van de magistraet
10. Deher Stadt aengesteet lijnde, als voogt inde
deser stadt aengestelt sijnde als voogt ende toesiender
11. rostdetive over t’ he? Kindt ter andere ?ijde, ? hemen
respective over ’tselve kindt ter andere zijde, te kennen
12. Geveude dat tussehen Haerluijden albereijts deist?nten
gevende dat tusschen haerluijden albereijts disputen
13. Inde oneeningheden waeren geresen, over inde ter savete
ende oneenigheden waeren geresen over ende ter saecke
14. Dat offe het voort kindt met de justitutic bijden
dat ofte het voorscreven kindt met de justitie bij den
15. Testamente vande voorst Balten Keurvorst inde den
testamente van den voorscreven Balten Keurvorst ende den
16. Dersten Comp Huijs? of gerdeht voorden Rotarie -
eersten comparant huijsvrouwe opgerecht voor den notaris
17. Charles van der Mast inde hoechere getuijgen goden
Charles van der Mast ende seeckere getuijgen op den
18. 14e October 1692 bumen deser Stadt van hijne gerdehte
14en october 1691 binnen deser stadt van sijne gerechte
19. vaderlijche goederen inde legitime ?artic wel mochte
vaderlijcke goederen ende legitime portie wel mochte
20. vosdaen lijn, Inde omme alle desele tefre vuteren
voldaen sijn, ende omme alle deselve te [prevenieren]
21. Inde wegte?, Verelaren de Comparanten
ende weg te nemen, verclaren de comparanten
22. Gesamentlijct met malcanderen overcomen Inde ver
gesamentlijck met malcanderen overcomen ende ver-
23. accordeert te hijn ? agreatue vande voorst hoeren
accordeert te sijn op agreatie van de voorscreven heeren
24. vande Wagistract, Dat den Dersten Comparant
van de magistraet dat den eersten comparant
25. uijt den Hoofte van hijne Huijsvroe ?en het selve kindt
uijt den hoofde van sijne huijsvrouwe aen hetselve kindt
26. Fa? geven inde notkeeren in flaetse van de somme van
sal geven ende uutkeeren in plaetse van de somme van
27. vijff Dutvintig gels inden gemelte ter camente
vijffentwintig guldens in den gemelte testamente
28. geraert, de somme van den Hondert vijff inde
geroert de somme van eenhondert vijff ende
29. seventig guls, Glijvende den verderen contenue
seventig guldens, blijvende den verderen contenue
30. van den ter camente voorst in hijn geheet, inde hal
van den testamente voornoemt in sijn geheel ende sal
31. de voorst een hondert vijff ?n t seventig guls, gehalvens
de voorscreven eenhondert vijffentseventig guldens behalvens
32. d’ alimentatie inde uijt hettinge t’ voorst kindt out
d’alimentatie ende uijtsettinge ’t voorscreven kindt out
33. ?ijnde vijff en twintig jaeren ? ? dat tot
zijnde vijffentwintig jaeren ? ofte dat tot
34. Buwelijch offe anderen geapprogeerden fact sal
huwelijck ofte anderen geapprobeerden staet sal
35. hijn comen, strechen tot voldaeninge van hijn vader ?
sijn comen, strecken tot voldoeninge van sijne vader-
36. Lijcke goederen inde legitime foortie, G?elooven
lijcke goederen ende legitime portie, beloovende

Dit is de korte tweede pagina.

37. de Comparanten dehes altijt te Hillen Hoiden inde doen
38. Hoiden voor goet, vast bondig inde van waerden onder
39. Verbant van hadre fesoonen inde goeders als nae -
40. recht, Octum Boergen voornt ?er forhontie -
41. van Rurijen de Graim inde Johannes Baelmans -
42. Geijde foortere doher Stadt als getuijgen,

... en lijst met namen:

Adrianis Duijrefaer
Reinier Kurvorst
Kuningham
?
?

Quad Attestor
Van Booren Nots

I'll give you a content summary to start with, which may help you with further research:

It's not a will, but a new agreement made on the 28th of September 1693, after people had a dispute about the contents of a will.

On one side is Adriaen Duijvelaer, brandy merchant and citizen of "this city" (which I gather from your post is Bergen op Zoom), who is married to Jacomina Heckmans. Jacomina was widowed after the death of her previous husband Balten Keurvorst. She has a son by him, Johannes Keurvorst.

On the other side are Reijnier Keurvorst, master breadmaker, and Johan Kunningam, master chirurgeon, citizens of the city,; both are Johannes Keurvorst's uncles, and his legal guardians.

If I understand it correctly, then the uncles think Johannes was bequeathed too little from his fathers estate in the will that was made by him and Jacomina on the14th of October 1691 (in front of notary Charles van der Mast).
The rest of the execution of the will stays the same, but it is agreed that Johannes is getting 175 gulden instead of the 25 gulden mentioned in the will.

There's also a sum of 125 gulden mentioned, possibly for (but I'm not sure) sustenance and attire, until Johannes is 25, gets married or reaches another applicable state after which payment is no longer necessary.

First part:

1) Heden den 28sten September 1693 Compareerde etc.
2) Adriaen Duijvelaer Coompan* van Brandewijnen ende poorter
3) deser Stadt, als in huwelijck hebbende Jacomina
4) Heckmans die te voorens weduwe was, van balten Keurvorst
5) ende waer van een kindt met naeme Johannes Keurvorst
6) heeft behouden, ter eene ende Reijnier Keurvorst
7) Mr. Brootmaker en Johan Kunningam Mr. Chirurgijn
8) ende beijde mede poorters alhier, Ooms van t’ voorschreven
9) kindt ende bijde EdelAchtbare Heeren van de Magistraet
10) deser Stadt aengestelt sijnde, als voogt ende toesiender
11) respective over t’selve kindt ter andere zijde, te kennen
12) gevende dat tusschen haerluijden albereijts disputen
13) ende oneenigheden waeren geresen, over ende ter saecke
14) dat offe het voorschreven kindt met de justitutie bijden
15) testamente vande voorschreven Balten Keurvorst ende den
16) eersten Comparant huijsvrouw opgereckt voorden notaris…..

*spelling error, it should be "coopman"

I see now that I missed that mailmate already transcribed the first page.

Been digging around a bit for fun: on 15-9-1679 Catharina Cheurvorst (born te Bergen op Zoom) was married to Johannes Kunnegam (born te 's Hertogenbosch).

Balten and Jacomina were married on the 12th of april 1681, Joannes was baptised on 4-10-1686. In Balten's and Jacomina's will of 14th of october 1691, Balten is mentioned as being physically ill and bedbound, and he died three days later, on the 17th of October 1691.
Jacomina remarried on the17th of june 1692.

You most probably already know most if not all of this, but I thought I'd mention it it case you didn't.

Baltazar Reijnierssen, son of Reijnier Reijnierssen and Catharina Willems, baptized on the 9th of May at Bergen op Zoom.

Reijnier Reijniersse Keurvorst/Coorvorst/Korvorst/etc. was a tobacco merchant. There are many documents, but he made for example a will with his wife Cathelijne Willemsdochter on 27-12-1657, mentioning their children and specifically daughter Cathelijne Reijniers Keurvorst.

37. de Comparanten dehes altijt te Hillen Hoiden inde doen
de comparanten deses altijt te willen houden ende doen
38. Hoiden voor goet, vast bondig inde van waerden onder
houden voor goet, vast, bondig ende van waerden onder
39. Verbant van hadre fesoonen inde goeders als nae -
verbant van haere persoonen ende goederen als nae
40. recht, Octum Boergen voornt ?er forhontie -
recht. Actum Bergen voornoemt ter presentie
41. van Rurijen de Graim inde Johannes Baelmans -
van Jurijen de Grauw ende Johannes Baelmans,
42. Geijde foortere doher Stadt als getuijgen,
beijde poorters deser sgtadt als getuijgen
... en lijst met namen:
Adrianis Duijrefaer
Adrianis Duijvelaer
Reinier Kurvorst
Reinier Kuervorst
Kuningham
Kuninghan
?
Jurien de Grauw
?
Jan Baelmans
Quad Attestor
Quod attestor
Van Booren Nots
Van Booren, notaris/notarius

Looks like Reijnier Reijniersse Keurvorst died before 1660 and Cathalijne kept running the business, she is mentioned as brandy merchant several times from 1671 onwards (and earlier as a merchant). Since Balten was about 13 in 1671, it looks like he has taken over his parents' business.

Thank you so much for this! It is helping me piece together so much of my wife's family history.

Marjolijn,

Here is an 18 January 1643 document Renier Renierssen and the first document I can find with "Ceurvorst"/"Keurvorst" as a surname. It appears to be spelled "Curforst"?

The notary that wrote the document added the name "Keurvorst" after having written the document. Also, Renier added it on a line below his name - seen in this image.

I believe that it was a new name or title for him. It was obviously not a habit for him to write the surname. So this may be the beginning of my wife's family name. All documents earlier than 1643 in BoZ he is Reijnier Reijnierssen.

I hope to find the reason he began the family surname. Someone suggested it could have been given to him for an act of gallantry in war?

The war in 1643 that I am aware of was the 80 years war with the Spanish.

The date of the document is 28 September 1692

Notaris Cornelis van Booren, Minuutakten, 1692 1692
Gemeente Bergen op Zoom
notariële archieven
Archiefnummer boz - 0050
Inventarisnummer 0336

see pages 49 and 50 of 78 - Notaris Cornelis van Booren, Minuutakten, 1692
http://westbrabantsarchief.nl/collectie/bladeren-in-bronnen/registers?f…

According to the info in the index at WBA the following names in the document of 23 Sep 1692:
Jacomina Heckmans
Johannes Keurvorst
[overleden] Balten Keurvorst
[comparant] Reijnier Keurvorst (meester broodbakker) wonende te Bergen op Zoom
[comparant] Johan Kinningam (meester chirurgijn) wonende te Bergen op Zoom
magistraat wonende te Bergen op Zoom
[getuige] Jurien de Grauw wonende te Bergen op Zoom
[getuige] Johannes Baelmans wonende te Bergen op Zoom
[comparant] Adriaen Duijvelaer (brandewijnhandelaar) wonende te Bergen op Zoom
Charles van der Mast (notaris)

I only serahc on the name of Du*vel* and filtered on the year 1692
http://westbrabantsarchief.nl/collectie/voorouders/persons?f=%7B%22sear…

There was another document on the same date 28th Sep 1692
Notaris Cornelis van Booren, Grossen, 1690-1703, archiefnummer boz - 0050, Notariële archieven Bergen op Zoom, inventarisnummer 0361, aktenummer 2
Gemeente: Bergen op Zoom
Periode: 1690-1703
(35 pages)

See scans page 4 - > onwards
Try the search as suggested in my previous response.

To me it also looks like "Curforst".
(That being said, my transcription skills are far from perfect, I had your wife's ancestor sail around on the good ship Bunny House ;) )

It's indeed very interesting that the name is added later, like that was the period when Reijnier consciously decided to use it.

It's not uncommon for new surnames to pop up in the 17th century, I've seen it also in my own research. One of my ancestors seems to have taken on a surname when he became the miller of his own mill for example. I've also seen "switches", where for example someone called "Timmermans"(Carpenter) changed his name to "Raaijmakers" (wheelwright) because he specialized his skills into making wheels.

The name Keurvorst struck me as quite peculiar, as it means "prince-elector", and it's quite the name to choose! (A bit like naming your self John Royal Superstar, not exactly modest, but that is me looking at it with today's eyes.)

Do you have any indication that Reijnier was involved in warfare? (The whole of the Netherlands was affected by war at that time of course, but I mean documents specifically naming him in an army setting or doing something brave.)

I can't see the logic in choosing the name Keurvorst after such a feat though, there's no obvious correlation.

I'm afraid it could be very difficult to find the exact reason why that name was chosen. I do however have on theory, although I hasten to say that it is of course wildly speculative.

"Keur" is a word for "choice", and can also be a word for quality: a keurmerk (certification mark) is a mark of choice, indicating the quality of a product.

"Vorst "is an alternative word for king or ruler.

What if it's a bit of a word-play, Reijnier Reijnierssen being a tobacco trader and possibly having a bit of notoriety for choosing good quality produce to trade, having a bit of a nose for it? He could be jokingly called the king or vorst of choosing the right stuff, hence Keur-vorst. It's also a fun pun as the name suggest royalty, and it could even be a bit politically motivated as the king of Spain was basically evicted from the Netherlands by then, so calling yourself a king-chooser (what the title Keurvorst originally meant, royalty who get to choose the king/emperor ) can be a big wink to the political situation too.

Again, this is all purely guesswork and speculation, but in this situation the name would work quite cleverly on several levels. But it could be wildly wrong.

Ps: in my post of december the 26th, 14:35 , I made an error: Balthasar Keurvorst was of course about 18 in 1671. And I forgot to type his baptism year earlier!

Baltazar Reijnierssen was baptized on the 9th of May 1653 at Bergen op Zoom.

Ok, so here’s a fun one:

The document of the 18th of January 1643 is about Reijnier Reijniersse buying a house from Neeltken Anthonis, widow of Symon Lievenssen Daijer (a fish merchant).

He’s buying a house on de Vismarct, the Fish Market, which is currently known as the Sint-Catharinaplein. There are still 17th century houses present on that square (one says “anno 1628”), so you can use Google maps to virtually stand on that square and look at some houses that your wife’s ancestors saw in their daily lives too.

But it gets better: the document gets specific about the house too: if I read it right (so if anyone reading this wants to extra check: you’re very welcome) the house is called “Den Grooten Rentelberch”. East and South herenstrate, west ’t hoff van Bergen and Noorden the house “Den cleynen Rentelberch.”

I tried looking up “Rentelberch”, but there was no find of it on Google. But…I found a whole article about it, with extra information about you wife’s ancestor, again in the Bergen op zoom historic magazine De Waterschans…….. and the house still exists! (How amazing is that?!)

It seems there has been a big renovation in 1648 -most probably with your ancestor as owner of the house. Under the mascarons on the front it says “anno 1648”, what a surreal and cool notion to think that Reijnier Reijnierssen Keurvorst was the one who ordered them!

In the article the house is named “Grooten Rennenberg” a name which was changed (maybe by Reijnier Reijnierssen Keurvorst) to “De Verlooren Zoon” (The lost son)

The article also says: “Maybe we can equate him with Reijnier Reijnierssen, young man from the land of Luik, soldier under captain Bockhoven, who made notice of marriage on the 19th of January 1639 with Catelijn Willem Coops, from here, and who got married on February the 8th.”

Well, we know he is him, because Catelijn Willems is indeed Reijnier Reiniersse Keurvorst’s wife and mother of their son Balthasar Keurvorst.

Here’s the article:

http://periodieken.westbrabantsarchief.nl/issue/DWS/1985-03-01/edition/…

The marriage document of Reinier Reijnierssen and Catalijn Willem:

detail

It says: 

Reijnier Reijniersen J.M. uijt het landt van Luijck

soldeert onder Capt. Bockhoven; met Catalijn

Willem Coops J.D. van Breda, hier woonachtich.

Den Capteijn getuijgt vanden

Bruijdegom, ende de moeder

van ...egen de Bruijt

In the margin:

getrouwt

den 8 feb

1639

Reijnier Reijniersen J.M. [=Jonge Man = Young Man/previously unmarried] from the land of Luijck

soldiering under Captain Bockhoven; with Catalijn

Willem Coops J.D. [=Jonge Dochter = Young Daughter/Previously unmarried] from Breda, residing here.

The Captain is witness of the

groom, and the mother

of ..?... the bride

In the margin:

married

the 8th of february

1639

This article:

https://www.hendrickdekeyser.nl/panddetail/158/groot_en_klein_rennenber…

mentions there's a cannon barrel bricked into a side wall of the house, which they link to Reijnier Reijnierssen Keurvorsts life as a soldier before becoming a trader as a possible reason for it being there.

Sorry ik ben traag. Mijn pols zit na een operatie in een gipsverband.  Dit is zo nuttig!

Graag gedaan. Het is leuk zoeken.

I've searched some more and found Catelijn Willemse's parents and sisters.

The baptism file of Reijnier Keurvorsts first child with Catelijn Willems (2nd of November 1639)  mentions a Jacomijn Willems as a witness/godmother

On 1-9-1633 Maijken Jacobs made a will with her second husband Jacob Ros. It mentions the 5 children that she has had in a previous marriage with Willem Pieterssen. The two youngest are specifically named: Jacomijnken and Lijnken (=Catelijn/Catharina).

In the document of the 13th of april 1652 all the children are named, five daughters: Janneken, Aeltjen, Anthonette, Catelijntjen and Jacomijntje.

Jacomijntje is married to Job Bouwenssen, skipper and citizen of Bergen op Zoom

Janneken is married to Louijs Dirxss and lives in Geertruidenberg

Aeltjen is married to Huijbrecht Janssen

Catelijntjen is married to Reinier Reinierssen Korvorst, tobacco merchant

and Anthonette has died by then, but was married to Rochus Hollander and has left a son, Martinus, who was baptised in Roosendaal on 19-2-1634

On 22-12-1656 Jacomijn is mentioned to be 47 years old.

Van harte beterschap met je pols!

Misschien dit is Reijnier in Scherpenisse, Tholen?

Plaats Scherpenisse

Bron Registers van transporten, 1637-1667

Soort registratietransportakte

Pagina nummer 244

Periode 1637‑1667

Geregistreerde Reijnier Reijnierse

https://archieftholen.nl/onze-bronnen/voorouders/weergave/akte/layout/d…

Ik ken niet wat jaar.

The year is 1651.

Marjolijn,

I have been reading, investigating, and thinking on the information you provided.  On the subject of the name "Ceurvorst", which was new with Reijnier, I may have one new explanation:

"... There were noble families, but they had nothing like the power held by other European aristocrats.  Instead, power went to those who made things happen: businessmen and local magistrates.  Over time, human nature being what it is, these man would create a kind of merchant nobility, sometimes even buying titles from cash-poor foreigners, but this in itself underscores the point.  Upward mobility was part of the Dutch character..."

It is perhaps more than coincidental that Reijnier added "Ceurvorst" to the 18 January 1643 document - a document which was a transfer of property to him for "Groot Rennenberg" a place which was at the Markiezenhof.

It is also interesting to note that Reijnier came originally from further south - Luik/Liège.  The Holy Roman Empire was originally Catholic and the Keurvorst played a role in it.  The Catholics in 1643 were primarily in the area of Flanders and the Protestants to the north.  Though BoZ is close to this border, Reijnier came originally from a primarily Catholic region.  The soldier status however was beneath a captain who served Prins Frederik Hendrik (of Orange).  William of Orange of course started as Catholic and then became protestant and headed the revolt against the Spanish.  In 1648 there was the Peace of Westfalia and Treaty/Peace of Münster.  Kings were allowed to choose the religion of their territories and the Netherlands won their freedom from the oppression of a king.  All people of the States General in 1643 were fighting for their right to believe as they wish.

The choice or assignment of the name "Ceurvorst" in this time and place is unique.  A Ceurvorst chooses/votes on the next king of the Holy Roman Empire... an Empire which was being challenged and crumbling.  It seems for Reijnier to choose this name is to make a clear statement that the control is being taken from the oppressors by a "noble merchant".

This forum conversation is now quite long and I should perhaps start a new concise topic?  For me to strengthen this logic further I think transcribing the 1643 document fully and identify documents concerning Reijnier as a soldier and a merchant is my next step.

With the house I think you found the key to unlocking the origins of this family name!  Thank you!

-Jeff